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How would Jews in Eretz Yisroel be dealt with if an Arab government took over?

Dec. 23, 2008

Someone at work gave me a pamphlet published by you, a sample of some parts of the book Efes Biltecha Goaleinu with English translation side by side. I have a few questions on it.

The text of says that the trip of Ephraim's early exit from Egypt caused pharos drastic change in attitude about the yidden. I had not heard this before. Where in Torah can I find further support about the timing of this?

On pages chof daled and chof hay, the same text starting with "the survival of the jewish people...." seems to be repeated twice.

So is the belief that Israel as a country represents a failed divine test for yidden in general?

No where have I seen how non-observant yidden (including the flaky government) presently living in eretz Yisroel would be dealt with assuming that those in power just left it to the Arabs.

Dear Gavriel,

The source that the worst part of the slavery in Mitzraim started after the escape of the Bnei Ephraim is the Pirkei Rabbi Eliezer 47 quoted on that same page. The paragraph starting It is explained in our sacred writings is just a recap of that paragraph. In the final Efes Biltecha Goaleinu, the recap paragraph was removed.

In general, the pamphlet you were given is a very rough sketch of some of the sources that were later incorporated into our 500-page book, Efes Biltecha Goaleinu. The pamphlet was made for fundraising purposes and was done rather hurriedly, hence the repeated pages and other mistakes.

Yes, the Jewish people was faced with a great test in 1948. I would not say the test was whether or not to make a state in violation of the oaths, because the secular Zionists who didnt keep the Torah in any case were going to do that. The test was whether religious Jews would go along with it and lend legitimacy to the state in any way. A minority of religious Jews did pass this test, but a majority failed. Had they all passed the test, even if the secularists would have founded a state in any case, the state would have had almost no Jewish legitimacy and would quickly have fallen by the wayside as a non-Jewish project whose founders happen to have been Jewish, not unlike Russian Communism. The authentic Jewish people would have been clean of this violation.

In your final question, you seem to be asking what we advocate doing about the state. We advocate giving it back to the gentiles, but then your question is that since those in power wont listen to us, what is our plan? The answer is that we say religious Jews should proclaim to the world that they have nothing to do with the state and try as much as possible to separate the Jewish people from the state in the minds of the world. If we cant take away the state, our strategy should be to take away its Jewishness. This may be indeed the way that the state will disappear in the near future not through violence, G-d forbid, but through a demographic process involving Arab refugees moving in, the integration of the territories and their Arab population into the state and the electoral process.

Thanks for the very personal response.

I will try and find some of the pirekei r' eliezier references you provided. The idea that paro's labors escalated after Ephraims definitely goes against everything I was taught.

As far as the beginnings of the Jewish state of Eretz Yisroel and the UN goes, your stated position is that it should have been refused by all torah jews and that would have meant we as a group passed the test?

I have read in sanhedrin 94 that all Jews must be out of any power (arrogance) in Eretz Yisreol before moshiach will come.

There are two questions here:

Does that exclude (jewish) Zionists who have no understanding of Torah (am h'oretz) ?

Also, does the word "any" mean less than the majority of the Jewish and Araba population as you suggest as an approach to make it a "non Jewish" state?

My concern about the approach you suggest is that our arab "pere adam" cousins don't rule by democracy. Allowing their majority would put those Zionists and secular yidden in certain danger. Halacha does not allow suicide or aiding the enemy, and even one death is a severe aviera.

I have faith that Hashem do his part when we do ours but I also know that we cannot rely upon a miracle. Certainly laying down Jewish guns in the face of crazy Arabs would be doing just that.

There is one other gemora reference that says that moshiach will not come until all of the souls waiting in shemayim must be brought down. Are you suggesting that we give a bonus to arabs to make more babies to quickly overpopulate the land as the yidden did in mitzraym?

I must tell you that I am 52 and as of 10 years ago, I was totally frei being m'careved by Chabad. I would not have known any of the above Torah concepts nor have even listened to a word you said. Hashem obviously had other plans for me, B"H.

I still understand their mindset however and assuming that the gemora represents the actual halacha about having no Jews in power, I think we will have a long wait before Moshiach comes riding on his red donkey, chas v'shalom.

Good shabbos.

Please write back soon.

Yes, the Gemora in Sanhedrin says that moshiach will not come until the low kingdom is gone from Israel. Rashi says, Until Israel has no rulership, even a low and inconsequential rulership. This includes any Jewish state, even one run by secular Jews and amei haaretz. However, if there were a gentile majority and nothing officially Jewish about the state, it would not violate this condition. Just as New York may have a Jewish mayor and Connecticut may have a Jewish senator, yet that does not mean that Jews have a rulership and thus prevent moshiach from coming, so too in Eretz Yisroel if there is a binational state in which non-Jews are the majority, Jews could live and even vote, and it would not be considered Jewish rulership.

To address your fears (and you are not unique in having them) of what the Arabs would do if they have the majority, I would suggest that the United Nations immediately recognize as refugees any Jews who wish to escape Eretz Yisroel and take up residence elsewhere. Even without refugee status, there are countries such as Germany and Russia who would welcome any number of Jewish immigrants. I predict that there would be three kinds of Jews who would stay behind: 1) Some Anti-Zionist Jews who trust the Arabs and arent afraid to live under them. 2) Ultra Zionists who are mainly interested in living in Eretz Yisroel and would live there under any government. 3) Secularist peace activists who have always been pushing for this kind of solution.

I dont understand your question about having babies and bringing moshiach. In any case, our goal is not to do whatever it takes to bring moshiach. That is up to Hashem. We have to end the State of Israel because that it what the Torah demands of us through the 3 oaths. Not because we are pro-Arab and not in order to bring moshiach.